Truth or consequences
Feb 26, 2009 by libjpnFeh. I don't have any problem with fabulists, I was raised in Mississippi. But fabulists making up shit to advance some philosophical/political argument is 10 pounds in a 5 pound sack. At least, that's my current belief. Thoughts?
Comments
Feb 26, 2009, 21:49:40 OCSteve wrote:
I don’t know LJ. I think you may be right about the Frank connection. OTOH I do think he has been fairly consistent in his anecdotes.
He does seem to have gotten under your skin though, and I’m not sure why…
Feb 26, 2009, 22:26:05 Slartibartfast wrote:
Uh...what? Context? WTF are you guys talking about?
Feb 26, 2009, 22:44:32 OCSteve wrote:
I'm assuming 3D-dave in the latest thread.
Feb 27, 2009, 00:06:00 Slartibartfast wrote:
Ah. I don't know that it's a given that he's making it up, though.
Feb 27, 2009, 02:43:46 dkilmer wrote:
Are 3d-dave's claims true? No idea. Do rich people really talk about "my pile", as if they just shit somewhere and don't want anyone messin' with their shit? Who knows?
I'm sure, though, that disproving the existence of 3d-dave's shit pile would do nothing to discredit the argument that he's making with it.
Catsy is probably right, though. He's pretty clearly trolling and doesn't show any signs of engaging on an intellectual level.
Feb 27, 2009, 07:20:45 libjpn wrote:
Yeah, it's ddddave that pisses me off. It may not be a given, but at some point, you stop and wonder when things start to contradict themselves.
And, true, even if every last thing he says is 100% false, it doesn't discredit his 'argument', but when we talk about tax fairness and such, the devil is most assuredly in the details, so that sort of asshat trollery just gets people arguing over imaginary differences that just raise the temp.
Feb 27, 2009, 07:27:38 OCSteve wrote:
LJ – Just curious… Even if I assume he is a troll, he seems to have really gotten under your skin?
What up?
Feb 27, 2009, 07:47:37 libjpn wrote:
Nothing wrong IRL, it's just that I go to ObWi to see some exchange of opinions by people who are honest. To see these long screeds by someone who is obviously (imo) making shit up just pisses me off. That whole thread about the progressivity of a tax code got under my skin and every time I see him shit in a thread, it gets worse. The thing is, when someone like that weighs in, with unsourced and unsubstantiated anecdotes, people respond to him without links and there is no there there. Yet, because of the complexity of taxes and how we measure wealth, he gets away with it. If he were giving historical anecdotes, he would have gotten blown out of the water a long time ago.
Feb 27, 2009, 08:12:39 OCSteve wrote:
Well, I think your strongest case is that someone that well off would not spend his day messing with us. The dude would be busy – running from meeting to meeting all day. So that is suspicious.
Feb 27, 2009, 14:53:53 libjpn wrote:
I was just looking over the thread again, and saw this
[i]Inland empire? I broke ground last month on a senior facility in Palm Desert about a block from the Eisenhower hospital. Check it out. I did one in Chino Hills maybe six years ago and Murrieta about 10 years ago.[/i] [url=http://obsidianwings.blogs....]here[/url]
Taking him up on his offer, I found [url=http://www.allbusiness.com/...]this[/url] complex located a block from the Eisenhower Medical Center.
[i]The city of Rancho Mirage Housing Authority has taken over Whispering Waters Senior Housing Complex at 42536 Rancho Mirage Lane.
In 1996, the Housing Authority assisted the owners of a dilapidated, former motel with financial assistance in the form of a loan and grant totaling 1,575,884. In the last few years, residents complained of deteriorating living conditions. Upon investigation, the city learned of deferred maintenance, including damaged roofing and water and plumbing damage. The entry fountain had been shut down due to a leak and the swimming pool recently had to be emptied due to severe cracks. A city audit of the tenant rent role revealed rental overcharges in certain units in violation of the covenants encumbering the property. In December 2003, the city compelled the refund of several thousand dollars in overcharges.
Additionally, the owners had fallen behind in loan payments and property taxes. While they successfully negotiated a delinquent property tax installment payment plan with the county to avoid a tax sale of the property, one of several lenders on the property had commenced foreclosure proceedings.
In what the city terms a win-win situation, the City Housing Authority negotiated to purchase the complex for an adjusted purchase price of $1,375,000. Acquisition allows the city to secure long-term availability of 30 affordable senior housing units, including an on-site manager's unit, at a price far below the cost of new construction (estimated to be between $100,000 and $200,000 a unit, depending on land cost). The affordability covenants would have expired in less than 30 years; city ownership ensures the units could be maintained affordable indefinitely. Ile purchase price also allowed the owners to walk away from the property without additional expense and was sufficient to pay off outstanding property encumbrances, including mortgage liens and property taxes. Upon learning of the purchase, the lender agreed to postpone the foreclosure sale.[/i]
Now, this is 2004 and dave claims that he just broke ground, so maybe this is another senior facility that is also a block from the Eisenhower med center.
And while I found some interesting things in Chino Hills and Murrieta, I couldn't narrow down the locations. So perhaps he is breaking ground on another wonderful project that will allow him to spend his twilight years enjoying 'the town he built', rather than being the owner of this fixer-upper. But it makes one wonder.
Feb 27, 2009, 23:15:48 dkilmer wrote:
I couldn't resist.
Comment by d'd'd'dave at [url=http://growabrain.typepad.c...]this blog[/url].
Refers to [url=http://www.dirtyjobsmikerow...] this TV show[/url].
This is the [url=http://www1.pressdemocrat.c...]mobile home park[/url]
Feb 28, 2009, 07:19:32 libjpn wrote:
After sleeping on an evening's worth of googling, it occurs to me that one is as much a fabulist by leaving out details as by making them up.
Feb 28, 2009, 08:45:07 OCSteve wrote:
Bah. I like him. Like B.O.B., he makes me seem sane by comparison. ;)
Mar 01, 2009, 22:32:46 russell wrote:
I don't know enough about the real estate biz to tell if dave is full of crap or not.
I do know that the issues he talks about with the mobile home park are the same as friends of my wife and I ran into when they bought and 'rehabbed' a mobile park in Ft Lauderdale a while back.
A lot of the things he talks about regarding his business are the same or similar to issues my brother in law runs into with his printing business.
The thing that annoys me with him is the 'entrepreneurs are the indispensable engine of the economy' thing. Every entrepreneur I know is prone to this same attitude. I think it's an occupational hazard.
But AFAICT the basic facts he presents are as likely to be so as not. So I just take them at face value.
Mar 01, 2009, 23:15:02 libjpn wrote:
Well, it's interesting, cause Francis noted the mobile home thing and he said a bit strongly, no, he didn't handle them. If by 'rehabbing', it means buying them and converting them to other things, sure, that's something that people do, but he really doesn't seem to accept that people might need to live there. I was pretty surprised the the Dirty Jobs clip of the mobile homes still having everything in them, which seems strange if you had people moving out rather than getting thrown out. I imagine that he feels he is the hand of progress and people who are opposed to him are just opposed to progress. That certainty that he's doing the right thing and everyone who might have an objection is wrong is probably what pisses me off the most.
Mar 02, 2009, 00:43:46 Slartibartfast wrote:
Well, at least now he's admitted to being frank. I can now stop biting my tongue about that yes, he actually is the same uy.
Mar 02, 2009, 02:14:52 Slartibartfast wrote:
I also tend to like d'ave not only because he makes me look sane, but also because he's the counterbalance to some of the fringe-left we get commenting on OW. I've actually seen comments that contain "Eat the rich" (and mean it) get offered up without any negative response. Now, this kind of thing might be getting justly ignored, but their opposite doesn't.
Which makes me think: why not?
Mar 02, 2009, 03:22:03 russell wrote:
[i]I imagine that he feels he is the hand of progress and people who are opposed to him are just opposed to progress.[/i]
That was pretty much the attitude of our friends.
There are probably about 97 ways to look at it, and from about 61 of them, the world is a better place if a run down mobile home park gets turned into something else -- something better and more permanent.
It won't be 'better' for the folks who used to live there. Or, most likely will not.
I don't have a good answer to that. It's a bigger problem than the guy doing the rehabbing can solve, generally. In general, it's a problem we all own.
Mar 02, 2009, 07:21:58 libjpn wrote:
It's interesting, but I guess the reason he changed nicks was that frank basically said everyone on the board was an idiot and he wasn't going to hang out there, and he couldn't come back and keep his persona if he had to say 'well, maybe I overstated things'. Is the fiction to keep his persona something that is powerful enough to negate any other points he makes? I don't know, but it is a lot like those criminal procedurals, as the small inconsistency heralds larger ones below the surface.
Second, slart's point about the occasional far-left comment is true, but if someone started making such comments of eat the rich and trying to throw their personal anecdotes up to prove that this is the correct path might get a lot more attention than someone who is just spouting off catchphrases. Maybe not, but I would like to think so.
Finally, russell, I totally agree that there isn't a good answer, but you and I (and most sane people) understand the last sentence of your comment as being true. Which might be why dave's stance is taken as affirming OC and Slarti's sanity.